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M74/41/51 (Collecting)

by Fabian23 ⌂, Switzerland, Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 08:35 (3806 days ago)

Finally I have found one of these monster rifles for a sensible price (thanks for the heads-up JK :-D). It still has the pillar breech intact and a nice rifled barrel. Pics will of course follow once she has made her way across the atlantic and I have given her the once over.

I intend to do a little trial of my two pre-minié rifles to see how they compare, namely this rifle versus an Austrian Kammerbüsche (Delvigne breech). If anyone has the dimensions of the original bullet please please let me know!

p.s Purely for cosmetics, what is the correct socket bayonet for a 74/41/51? It seens to be a bayonet with a spring catch of some sort......

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M74/41/51

by Øyvind F. ⌂ @, Bergen, Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 09:34 (3805 days ago) @ Fabian23

Congratulations! As you probably know you can use the conical kammerlader ball in the M/1774/41/51 if you plan to shoot it.

For information on the bayonet for this model, see Per Holmbäck's excellent bayonet site. I think the model you need is M/1765-69-74. It may be listed under Danish bayonets. Here you see a M/1774 with fixed bayonet.

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M74/41/51

by Fabian23 ⌂, Switzerland, Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 10:12 (3805 days ago) @ Øyvind F.

Thanks Oyvind :-D

The thought had occured to me about the kammerlader conical, it has forward facing lube grooves just like the Tamisier pre-minié bullet. Thanks for the link to Tronds site, I had lost it since it was overhauled, now saved in my favourites

I visited Pers' site but was at a loss about which bayonet was correct :confused:

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M74/41/51

by Øyvind F. ⌂ @, Bergen, Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 11:48 (3805 days ago) @ Fabian23

This would be the correct bayonet for your musket: http://www.holmback.se/bayonets/Notes/dan-Main.html#M1765-69-70

The Norwegian kammerlader bullet was actually based on Tamisier’s bullet. The pillar breech rifles used a slightly different paper cartridge to that of the kammerlader. It had the paper tied to the groove of the bullets. See the first cartridge in the picture below.

[image]

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M74/41/51

by Fabian23 ⌂, Switzerland, Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 12:56 (3805 days ago) @ Øyvind F.

I'll probably need Norwegian help to find one of those! :-P

Trond probably has them all locked in his bunker :elg:

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M74/41/51

by jke @, Wisconsin US, Thursday, March 18, 2010, 00:00 (3804 days ago) @ Fabian23

Very good Fabian.

There quite a few Norwegians living here in Wisconsin. Perhaps some day I might just find a nice M1821/41/51 for you also.

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M74/41/51

by Fabian23 ⌂, Switzerland, Thursday, March 18, 2010, 08:04 (3804 days ago) @ jke

Much as I would love to stack up more rifles John, unless this 74/41/51 prooves to be a wallhanger I'll have to pass.

I'll be temporarily halting collecting due to the imminent arrival of baby mkII and the need for a bigger car. The gun fund is thus now becoming the kids fund.
With over 40 original rifles and pistols from matchlock to centerfire to keep me busy, I'll now concentrate on the resoration, researching and shooting what I have, when not changing nappies and paying the bills :-D

So no more new toys but I will be active on the loading/reloading side of our beautiful hobby! :hagle:

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M74/41/51

by Fabian23 ⌂, Switzerland, Thursday, May 06, 2010, 10:11 (3754 days ago) @ Fabian23

Here she is :-D :-D :-D

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I also pulled the breech plug to be able to clean the pillar properly and measure it to make up a cleaning tool. Since the pillar and rifling are so shiny, I guess it did not see much action after its last conversion.

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The stock had a few non-structural cracks to repair so I stripped the old black paint off which was flaking off anyway and have reapplied some now the repairs are complete. I know it looks very shiny, I still need to dull it it down.

Anyone happen to know what RR20N83 and RITS;COP:N°75 mean?

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M74/41/51

by The Norwegian ⌂ @, Vestfold, Monday, May 10, 2010, 21:25 (3750 days ago) @ Fabian23

Congratulasjon Fabien.
The M1774/41/41 is in verry good condition, what is the nr one your rifle? My has nr 141.
You asked for the bayonett, i am gonna ask the one that i bught my bayonett from if he got more:-) I am stil waiting for mine.

I got one as good looking as yours http://gammlevaapen.net/side42.html
But mine is a wall hanger in my collection:-) But i woud werry mutch have a 1821/41/51 in my collection, that is one my priority list.

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M74/41/51

by Fabian23 ⌂, Switzerland, Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 11:05 (3749 days ago) @ The Norwegian

Number 248 on the lock, barrel, breechplug, and stock (under the paint). I don't own any wallhangers :-D

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M74/41/51

by jke @, Wisconsin US, Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 18:45 (3706 days ago) @ Fabian23

Fabien,
Your rifle looks much better than the pictures of it when it was on the auction site. You did an excellent job restoring it !!!

Best Regards,John

M74/41/51

by DaJoPa, The Netherlands, Monday, March 19, 2012, 21:13 (3071 days ago) @ Fabian23

Hello Fabian,

Have you fired your M74/41/51 already? I would like to hear all about it. I also own a M74/41/51 in comparable condition as yours with original paint and no cracks to repair. Mine has the number 706 and the inscription OPL - R. Does anybody know what that means?
I bought mine as a Danish Model 1789 and during the search of information about the rifle I found out it was a M74/41/51 and was pleasantly surprised. Also on the search I discovered this site and owning some more Scandinavian rifles it is very helpfull to me.

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Dajopa

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M74/41/51

by Fabian23 ⌂, Switzerland, Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 11:41 (3049 days ago) @ DaJoPa

Hallo Hallo :-)

Sorry for the late reply, indeed I have not been around the forum much at all lately. Lots to do settling in to my new country.

I have not yet fired the '51 rifle although I have everything I need. The bullet I will be trying is the one used for Kammerladers which Oyvind had made by LEE a few years ago, have a look in the Kammerlader articles on the main site. For chamber cleaning I have had a tool made by a fellow member Gianluca which I hope will help at least clean the barrel and scrape the breech face. It screws onto the original ramrod. I think cleaning the pillar will be simply a case of leaving cleaning fluid down bore for a while to soften everything up and brushing with a small brush.

For the load I first plan to try a simple volumetric load by calcutating the volume of the powder chamber up to the tip of the pillar and using the corresponding volume of powder.

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M74/41/51

by DaJoPa, The Netherlands, Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 20:11 (3048 days ago) @ Fabian23

Hallo Fabian,

I thought I had a fellow M74/41/51-owner/shooter in my country but sadly you moved in the meantime.
While you didn't fire your rifle yet, you can't give me information about that. I will have to try it on my own account. Before I will buy a bulletmould for the kammerladerbullet I will try my rifle with roundballs.
Does anybody know for what distance the sights of those rifles are made. The short blade is numbered 300 and the long blade is numbered 400, 500 and 600. What was used for measuring in Norway in those days?

Dajopa

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